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A fellow colleague and I were discussing twisting and he brought up a very thought provoking way of looking at twist direction.
After retiring from gymnastics, my colleague decided to take up bull riding. In bull riding, participants are strapped onto a bull by one arm while the other is used to maintain balance. On the first attempt, he was asked which hand was his dominate (right) and which was his non-dominate (left). Coincidentally, he was instructed to strap his left arm down to the bull, and use his right arm to balance. To put it simply, his non-dominate arm was used as a ‘stabilizer’, while his dominate arm was used as an ‘active’, or ‘working’ mechanism to maintain balance. This arm arrangement caused my colleague to question many things about sport and its implications, one of these questions became – How and why we choose a particular direction of twist for gymnastics?
I think the majority of us would concede most of the world’s population are right handed while left handed people are a minority (I am one of them). ‘In 1998, a study suggested that approximately 7 to 10 percent of the adult population was left-handed’ (Hardyck, C., & Petrinovich, L. F. (1977). “Left-handedness”, Psychological Bulletin, 84, 385–404.)
There are many examples of sport adapting to right handed people. In almost all racing sports, tracks go counter-clockwise (in the USA). This may not be a coincidence, rather I think racing has developed this direction due to the fact that when you turn a steering wheel left, you work to push the wheel left with your right arm, or you push the right bike handle forward to turn left – the majority of the population find it comfortable to use their right arm as an ‘active’, or ‘working’, mechanism to accomplish left turns. It seems interesting that the only sport in the USA that goes clockwise around a track is dog racing, a non-human driven sport!
In gymnastics, some nations have adopted a methodological way to respect the right-handed majority. For many coaches and nations, (the former Soviet Union and China) the choice was/is often standard in which direction to introduce twisting – it is deemed left for all individuals, regardless of haptic/optic testing, left is standard. What a profoundly logical stance given the odds of dictating the correct direction could be close to 90 percent correct!
Trusting the maxim that the non-dominate arm is used to ‘stabilize’ and the dominate arm is ‘active’, or ‘working’, it can be perhaps argued in favour of this methodology. Coaches have considered that the majority of gymnasts will be right handed therefore their left arm would be the ‘stabilizer’ and the right arm would ‘work’ across their body to reduce moment of inertia rapidly, in turn increasing angular velocity more effectively. Almost 90 percent of the time they will get the choice correct, but what about those 7-10%? What happens when they learn to twist the wrong direction to what MAY have been naturally correct for them? Do they twist ‘early’ or ineffectively? Perhaps they twist early, or ineffectively, because their dominate arm seems to want to work faster in chronological sequence of ‘wrapping’, ahead of their non-dominate which aids in ‘stabilizing’ or setting, to establish transverse rotation effectively.
What perhaps is most important becomes whatever is chosen, right, or left, dominate, or non dominate – twist direction remains consistent in all skill development thereafter.
The conversation has been very interesting and this seems a great forum to discuss the implications of the majority of the population being right handed and how it has affected gymnastics and coaching methodologies with regards to twisting. Discuss???
I am right handed and i twist towards my left side, however, i know a number of right handed people who rotate towards their right side. likewise i know left handed people who rotate either way. It seems to me that most people rotate towards the left but being right or left handed decide the direction for you.
In terms of coaching i tend to start teaching people cartwheels or twisting towards the left and if they have trouble I try towards the right. This may be a bit biased.
Also this seams relevant: http://www.fsp.uni-lj.si/mma_bin.php?id=2010020920464782
Interesting. So does this mean that they would use the same theory for going forwards and backwards? In my experience the arms change depening on the direction of the somersault. Would this method not take much longer to teach as the gymnast would almost be fighting against their natural instinct or is the theory….. what they have never felt will not be missed?
And would this not have implications when twisting from a roundoff on floor or kazamatsu on vault?
Lee, you are correct the arms change, meaning if you are a left twister than on a forward somersault you would drop your right arm and twist left, on a backward somersault you would drop your left arm and twist left. In simpler terms, ‘The shortened side of the body always leads (twists) into the direction of somersault rotation’ (Gerald George, Ph. D)
I tend to teach backward twisting as only a 1/2 twist then utilising forward twisting concepts, let me explain using a left twister as an example who is right arm dominate –
Before introducing backward twisting the gymnast should understand how to perform a forward somersault in the straight position with a full twist. This full twist should further be understood using body-tilt twisting technique. ‘By tilting the rotating body slightly outside the somersault plane, the gymnast can borrow a small portion of the already-existing somersault rotation and convert it into twist rotation’ Therefore this left twister would, after take-off, drop the right arm (their dominate arm in this hypothetical case) to perform a left twist. Once this concept is developed and refined, backward twisting is then introduced.
Here is how I have taught it – All backward multiple twisting equates to performing a backward somersault with a 1/2 twist into a forward somersault with multiple twists. This methodology can allow a dominate right arm person who twists to the left to perform a backward somersault with 1/2 twist performed by pulling the left arm backward (the non-dominate arm) then use their right arm (dominate arm) to forcefully ‘work’, or be ‘active’, to accomplish the desired remaining twists.
Therefore the puzzle works as such –
Full Twisting Backward Somersault = Back with 1/2 (using left arm) Front with 1/2 (using right arm)
3/2 Twisting Backward Somersault = Back with 1/2 (using left arm) Front with 1/1 (using right arm)
2/1 Twisting Backward Somersault = Back with 1/2 (using left arm) Front with 3/2 (using right arm)
And so forth and so on…The general rule, the greater the addition of forward twists, the more ‘active’ the dominate arm would become.
In using this methodology the non-dominate ‘stabilising’ arm retains the theory of allowing a square transverse take-off and the dominate ‘active’ arm subsequently is utilised to reduce the desired moment of inertia.
Hi Lee and Adam,
I was wondering if you could share some more of your background in Gymnastics. As a coach and gymnasts.
Thanks!
Hi Patt
I have a back ground in gymnastics of around 20 years. I walked into the gym at 5 years old and have never left!
I trained as a gymnast at a reasonable standard until the age of 16/17 making the under 14 national squad once.
After retiring from training I took up a little coaching role and got myself a job outside of the gym serving breakfast in a hotel. Which if I am honest I hated! I really only wanted to be in the gym.
I have been really lucky in my career so far having experienced training camps in places like USA, South Africa, Moscow (Dynamo regularly) and also competitions in places such as Germany, USA, Russia, Switzerland and South Africa. Travelling the world is definitely a bonus to this job!
I started full time at my gym club at the age of 17/18 and have never looked back!
Things are good with a healthy sized squad to manage and a group of 6/7 gymnasts to work with daily with 2 of these being in the elite performance national squad.
I am still a young coach and looking to learn all the time! Working within the national squad system with coaches like Lee really help as there is such a wealth on knowledge to take from.
Patt, please share with us a little more about your role in gymnastics too!
Wow sounds like you have had a great run of it. I’m hoping to get some travel out of the job sometime soon.
I haven’t had much experience as a gymnast. I grew up on my trampoline and did some recreational classes when i was 14. Then i started training at the adults classes and was recruited as a coach at 16. I have been coaching for about 2 years and have to say it has me hooked. I coach 7-10 year olds in our competitive and recreational program at my gym. I want to make a career out of coaching but right now i have just started university studying sports coaching and exercise science.
I must say i am pretty excited about this site because there isn’t a massive amount of gymnastics specific coaching advice that is easily accessible. Especially for men’s gymnastics.
On a side note how does your national squad system work over in the UK?
Our national squad system is fairly straight forward we have 3/4 different squads.
Our first squad is called the Elite Performance Squad where I currently have 2 boys on the squad and Lee 6!!!
To qualify for this squad the boys have to compete in our Elite Grades competition normally held in May. The top boys from each of age groups (L1-U9,L2-U10,L3-U11,L4-U12,L5-U13 and L6-U14) are considered for selection into the Elite Performance depending on results from the grades aswell as other national competitions throughout the year. Some of these boys are selected to compete in international events that are held throughout the year in different parts of Europe.
The next step forward is the first TOP squad currently known as TOP 2016. The focus of this squad is the 2012 Junior Europeans and ultimately the 2016 Olympics in Rio. Above that is our TOP Junior and TOP Senior Squad. There immediate targets are the European Championships and the London 2012 Olympics.
There is a lot of excitment and a real buzz around the system at the moment as the “talent pool” is immense at the moment. There are quite a large number of boys at the level to push for Olympic places. I guess around 10-12 gymnasts that are pushing hard for the 5 places in GBR team this Summer. A selection headache but I guess a nice headache to have! Gone of the days we were scrapping around for 5 or 6 gymnasts to fulfil team requirements.
Its an honour to be part of the system which has grown and developed so much in the last 4 or 5 years! Credit to our National coaches who have created a very open minded but at the same time a very solid, structured squad. One thing I believe everyone really has benefited from is the work that the national staff and personal coaches do together. Everyone is very keen to openly share there knowledge and no one is considered wrong in what their opinions are! As a result some amazing results have been produced!
Here hoping that all the hard work pays off for the squad in 6 months time!
Sounds like a good system. Do the boys you train attend camps with the national coaches? and if so do you go along as well? Are you required to teach them certain skills that the national coaches want you to teach them or are they more of a guiding influence? Sorry for picking your brain i am just interested in the way elite performance programs operate.
Patt. For each Squad we have a National coach who is ultimately in charge. We then have British Gymnastics ‘excel’ coaches who lead each group and then the personal coaches attend to work with the Excel and National coaches. The personal coaches have to foot their own bill for accommodation and food if they choose to attend. As the boys move through in to the TOP squads then it really is just the National and personal coaches who attend. This is because the Excel coaches for the moment are employed to guide and develop the younger boys.
As far as skill selection goes, personal coaches are always in charge but they are influenced by the National Staff and will have recommendations made to them.
Hope this helps.
Wow. Impressively timely reply Lee.
Okay that makes sense. I live in Australia and my state doesn’t have an elite performance program so it’s all a bit of a mistery to me.
Thanks!
Hi… Lee Woolls and Adam Paterson… I’m from Brazil… and I’m coach MAG here…
First of all I would like to say congratulations for your job. NICE..
I saw the Rings Conditioning’s clips, Very nice… ANd then, I Stayed With a Doubt..
Question: Don’t you use the weights device (bodybuilding) to help in the Cross and Malteze ellement?To stay 2”, holding. The correct!
How the gymnasts have the muscle-ups?
Just work specific on aparattus, like at clip? or have another way to conditioning all strength and hold ellements(group IV)?
I hope Answer…
Thank you!
Hi Tomas.
These exercises are used as an introductory into rings strength, mainly for younger junior gymnasts. As the gymnasts get older then this program changes to include more specific rings strength and yes this may include loading the gymnasts as they hold and press elements such as cross and maltese.
Thanks,
Lee
Hi Lee…
OK… I get it.. That part is just to introduce the youngers…
Cool.. Thank you to answer…
Sometime, please, could you put something introductory for basic ellements on pommel horse….
Thanks again!
Interesting about twisting directions, I have had a number of gymnasts who I have always thought just didn’t understand backward twisting but did understand forward, so I have also Arabian-ed into a forward twist, for them. Your theory of dominate arms would make much more sense. As most young children seem to naturally run around a room anti clockwise dominate legs should also be considered, this would effect jumps and a round off. Thomas Is this true in Brazil or are you north of the equator?
Lee re your flic video; this technique is taught by the Tumbling fraternity and is in their judging system and adds a good ½ metre to the length of a flic. We have great success with it on Airtrack, Fast Track, Tumble track and Airfloor on a sprung floor but everyone apart from 1 boy struggles to use the dropping of arms technique on a Sprung floor do any of your gymnasts manage?
Hi lee/ adam
I was wondering if you could share your process of talent identification within your clubs. when i talent I.D i look for the obvious signs such as natural ability, willingness to train hard and achieve, good attendance and supportive parents. do you look for similar things or do you have a set physical test that you screen the club with or select boys anually? also at what age you do you stop looking for talent, example, a boy aged 11 joins the club and shows some good potential and covers all the above points, do you persue with this gymnast or are they to old to make a decent competitive gymnast and decide to leave them in the recreational side of the gym? and what do you do with gymnasts that have failed in development squads due to lack of ability and/ or mental attitude, what do you do with them and how do you demote a child to a different group without upsetting them?
your clubs seem to have a great pool of talent and it would be interesting to hear hwo you go about talent I.D.
many thanks
james
Hello buddy,
Talent ID for me is one of those processes that will never be fully explained as there are always gymnasts who do not fit the ‘ideal’ and produce some of your best gymnastics.
When trialling young gymnasts i look for 2 things before anything else. I) SHOULDER flexibility. Specifically invert range. II) parents. How tall, frame etc. The first for me is the most important of the 2. After this i then have several test that have no relation to gymnastics (thats what the kids and parents think anyway) I) How fast can they run down a track. This show their coordination, running ability, speed and power. II) are they willing to jump off the high bar supporting platform? Shows nerves and bravery. III) I ask them to sit on the high parallel bars. They obviously can’t do it but i like to see the kids who just either refuse or say they can’t do it and the kids who problem solve and find a way.
After this i then look at gymnastics related skills such as flexibility, strength, natural ability etc.
I would much rather accept a little boy into my squad who has no prior gymnastics knowledge, is a little bit wild, and has flexible shoulders than a gymnast who can do the splits, forward and backward roll but is a product of good coaching rather than gymnastic ability. It is my job to teach gymnastics the way i want it done therefore there are far more important qualities that i look for during a gymnastics trial.
Hope this helps James
Lee
Hi Lee,
you don’t mention in this post much about the mental traits you want in your gymnasts other and bravery and problem solving. I was wondering how important you find traits such as focus, ability to listen, behavior during class and ability to apply corrections. Are these traits you can develop with your coaching and if so how do you go about teaching these mental “skills”?
Patt,
If I’m honest I don’t really care about behaviour, focus etc ( in the main) as some of my best gymnasts have been the ones who cannot focus for large periods of time or who are constantlŷ in trouble at school. I will trial the kids on the basis of what I see and like. If I have not tamed them at the end of, let’s say a 3 month period, then obviously they will not be accepted in to my full development squad. Gymnasts will act as they are allowed to. Discipline thought ever minute of the sessions normally sets the standard and then I have no problems……..so far! My boys are very good at working on their own as a result of my expectations.
Hope this helps
lee, thanks for that mate, it was very informative, i must say not the most conventional way of doing it; that information is never in any of the coaching manuals but it has obviously worked for you as you have produced the goods. i am inspired by how much you believe in yourself as a coach, keep up the good work!
just 1 question on the shoulder flexibilty tho, is this tested by german hang or el grip or something else?
cheers
James, just i perform several exercises manually to determine how the shoulder joints feel. You can normally tell if the shoulder joints are flexible, stiff or if the gymnasts is tight as they are a little unsure just by feeling the joint.
Lee and Adam
I was hoping that we might start a group type of discussion regarding time spent in support/hang/legs meaning what are some of your personal philosophies on maintaining fresh gymnast during the daily grind with needs so many circles, long swings, without frying wrist hands or knees and ankles….this is kind of in response to Lees pommel video and the need to get in 300 cricles a day and 3 types of long swings on pbars high bar and rings….I know for me on heavy Ring swing days I do some pbar long swing and not much hbar and on heavy high bar chalk day i try to do rings straps and more pbar support and on heavy pbar hang days more hbar strap and rings strength…..thoughts!
Jacob. There comes a time during your training where you find that there just are not enough hours in the gym for everything you need/want to train. I suggest you start to prioritise your skill learning or maybe alternate your skills over different days. For Exmaple:
Rings: Once maybe twice a week. Lots of rings will not aid a quick fix in learning high dislos and inlos.
Pommel: Everyday, even if it is a short skills session or a 30 minute endurance session.
P.Bars: Alternate between hang and support elements. On the hang sessions, alternate between Giant or Basket type elements.
Bar: Alternate between Strap and Chalk bar, Maybe on different days to your rings session.
Vault: Once a week, full vault…..any other days spend doing preps or orientation.
Floor: As many times as you want through orientation i.e. Trampoline, Fast Track, Tumble Track etc.
Hope this helps.
Hi Lee / Adam
I was hoping you could share your thoughts on Nutrition, not a very indepth subject covered in gymnastics but in my opinion its an important part of a gymnasts development. in every coaching manual i have seen all i have ever read is that a gymnast should have a balanced diet, now i believe they say this because it is more ethically correct to say this than anything else, balanced diets work well for normal people/ children but gymnasts training is not a normal lifestyle but more of a comparason to a racing car; you wouldnt give a racing car some standard cheap unleaded you’d give it the super high grade fuel, so i feel a gymanst should have a more tailored diet. also to develop a gymasts physical development they need to increase muscular strength and the bigger the muscle the stronger the muscle is, also with the frequency of a gymnasts training they need to repair rippped muscle fibres quickly which is done by protein intake so i believe a higher protein diet than normal is required for a gymnast. what are your thoughts on this subject, do you advise or try to influence your gymnasts diets atall, especially at an elite level? what age is it ethically ok to influence a diet? and do you advise them on pre training dietary intake?
thanks
james
Nutrition is a difficult one if you are not an expert. If i have any concerns then i tend to speak to somebody qualified to see whether they can offer any advice or help. Our TOP gymnasts do use supplements to aid their training but they tend to be vetted and agreed by the Governing Body before use.
I have noticed you gymnasts, judging by your videos, seem to have excellent flexibility, especially in their shoulders. Could you share with my your process for developing and maintaining their flexibility? Thanks!
Patt,
Let me assure you that not all of my gymnasts have good shoulder flexibility. Or not natural flexibility anyway. This is something that plays a big role in my talent identification process as i feel it is very important. If my gymnasts do have stiff shoulders then i have to gently stretch them everyday in that range. Again, no secrets just hard work.
Dang. I was hoping for a shortcut
Hi Lee
I’m looking for some whip preps without using trampoline. Anyone out there got some?
Cheers mike
Hi Mike,
How about supporting a standing whip from the edge of a springboard or angled trampette. You could also get the boys to roundoff and then flick over a small pile of mats. This will give then the right timing and takeoff position from the roundoff.
Hope they help
im going to the gym and i am practicing my back flick, but the keep twisting. my arms are perfect but the its my hips that turn and make my body go wired.
is there anything you could help out!!
Without seeing the skill itself it is difficult to correctly diagnose the problem. It could be several issues leading to the twist. Try holding a piece of foam or a pair of socks under your chin throughout the flick. This will stop you dropping a shoulder on take off or throwing your head out.
Hope it helps.
Lee
An open question to anyone really, just to see what other people’s views and opinions are…
Leg conditioning for MAG – how much and how often?
I must say, my gymnasts don’t do a great deal more than a few exercises (leg squats, heel raises etc – pretty standard stuff) in with their general conditioning. Of course they do jumping and landing off the high bar – which I guess you can count as leg conditioning, but not much more.
Furthermore, I have one gymnast who is beginning to specialise on floor and vault. I can’t help thinking to myself that he should be doing more lower body strengthening.
If anyone has any thoughts or advice I would be glad to hear…
If you have made the decision to specialise your gymnasts on Floor and vault then for me, his conditioning should be tailored specifically for these apparatus. Although he should be increasing his leg strength and joint stability he should continue with core, shoulders, back etc as these also pay an important role in floor and vault. Perhaps more importantly would be to decrease his other apparatus and introduce more orientation and prep stages for future skills on floor and vault.
Lee